Roadblock

The topic of finances came up last night, after I came home from a localish coffee shop.  Last year, we were able to save a fair bit of money (for us, anyways), and while we splurged from time to time with some of that money, it was never really a big deal.  This year, we added on an allowance for our older daughter (don't worry, the youngling gets hers starting in 2015, when she'll be old enough for a chore list of her own.)  I also added on weekly bowling sessions in the spring and summer, and that showed me how close to the line we really were.  I elected to stop bowling after the season was over so that we could have that amount back in our finances.

Then, Susan met Ryan, and considering the distance, she's done far more driving on the weekends overall than he has.  At first, I attributed it to a combination of a desire for her to get out of the house (completely understandable) as well as a mix of life events on his part, which has also been true.  His long time roommates gave him a harsh deadline to hit the road so that they could use his room to foster kids...not because they like kids, necessarily, but because they can fit two kids in there and get well over $1,000 from the state to do so.  I'll refrain from commenting on my thoughts on that, but in the end it meant that there were a few weeks where he was apartment hunting, or packing, or moving, or whatever.  Then there's his local poly group's meetings, which are on Saturdays once a month, which both of them like to attend, then his family member had a birthday, then then then then.

Earlier this week, Susan told Ryan that she couldn't really afford to come up, and Ryan offered to pay her gas money for the trip...and she felt squeamish about it.  She has her own childhood reasons for it, but it meant that there was a choice of accepting money or not going.  I tried convincing her to let him pay half, and she admitted that it was a good compromise, but it still didn't sit right with her.

Fast forward to last night, where we started talking about needing to cut out part of our cable, at least, in order to make ends meet.  In the middle of a review of where we were financially, it came out that Ryan doesn't really like coming down here, because it feels like he's interrupting...something, I'm not sure.  Also something about not feeling like he has enough time with her alone...which I can kind of see.  After all, if she goes up there, he's got about 24 hours of uninterrupted time with her, while down here the kids are roaming around, I'm here, etc., and it throws him off.

As soon as I found that out, my perception shifted.  If he's not willing to come down here more often, then hell yeah, let him pay for more of the gas.  It's especially important considering that starting in January, Navy pay rules mean that I'll be taking a pay cut for the first five months of the year (long story, not going to go into details here) of probably a couple hundred bucks a month.  It adds up.

The easy solution would be for Susan to find a job.  It would solve a couple of issues, like her lack of social activity as well as our money problems, but would mean that we would need to find non-regular childcare for our youngling at least in the rather frequent "vacation" periods of year round schooling we have.  It also means that we'd have to have someone able to pick her up from school even when she is occupied during the day.

What makes it harder is not only that she hasn't worked in more than nine years, but also that she has a mild cognitive disability, which affects short term memory.  She has to have a job that has a set routine, otherwise she runs into all sorts of complications.  The one time she tried working after our older daughter was born, she ran into just such a job, where she lasted two days (though I blame the company for not giving her a longer chance...after all, it's not every day that a bloody hurricane shows up in the neighborhood...)

I'm hoping she can pick something up by the new year; it'd be nice for us to build something up for a change.

Mirror, Mirror

Trina is off to another state for the next couple of weeks.  Ryan is dealing with stuff at home, and with finances the way they are, Susan is home this weekend.  Which means that the two of us are home this weekend, with nothing going on.  No visitors, no babysitting, no dancing, just us.

We should probably be doing...something?  But for the last few weeks Susan has projected a very "blah" image at me.  Both of us have had to deal with minor illnesses, she's had a couple of migraines (and has one now, as a matter of fact), and we've both been tired early.

I think I'm starting to realize that I feed off of whatever's going on around me more than I thought.  You know how some people say that they reflect the energy of those around them?  I'm somewhat the same, though that only applies to those I've let in my life.  I also do the same thing with books, too.  If I'm reading something fairly morbid or depressing (such as Robin Hobb's books...man she tortures the living hell out of her characters!), I tend to be very dark and thoughtful.  If I'm in a non-social mood, a friend who wants to do something will usually be able to convince me to do something.  But there lies a problem...there's almost no one I interact anymore that I can call a friend, and I really, really don't know how the hell to make them anymore.

I keep people at a distance at work...I see them enough anyways, and it really doesn't pay to be friends with people you may have to give orders to or receive orders from.  I'm relatively new to my area (three years or so), and while that may seem like more than enough time to get entrenched, for someone like me who just doesn't meet anyone except cashiers at stores, it's no time at all.  So how the hell does someone who's generally anti-social meet people who can help them be anti-social?  I really hate that catch-22 sometimes.

Luckily, the next couple of weeks should provide some measure of sociability.  Next week is a game night put on by someone on FetLife...only one of us can go, and I offered to watch the kids so Susan could get a chance to get out some as well.  Kinky people, yes, but in a vanilla-ish setting, so she said yes.  She's susceptible to changing her mind though, so I might end up going to the event after all.

I discovered that there's a dungeon far more local than the nearest big city, which is a couple of hours away.  They're having a two-night event...an open house followed by an actual play party, and Susan has given me the okay to attend that...as long as I give her all the details when I get home!  I'm somewhat leery of going.  While I'm far more interested in BDSM than I have ever been, I'm still one of those people for whom it's a bedroom activity, and not the only possible one, rather than a near 24-7 lifestyle.  For my area, that seems to be the people who show up to both poly and kink events, from all I gather.  We'll see.

Finally, I actually got my first response from a potential match on OKC for the first time in months.  It was someone who I'd seen visit me, so I knew she got the message...and then no response.  Days later, she finally replied with something on the order of "I'm not looking for friends right now, and I'm probably too slutty for your comfort as far as STIs are concerned."  If she's saying that, probably...though that is what protection is for, but at least I know why I'm being rejected for once.  It's kind of a refreshing feeling, really.

Fear

Yeah, yeah, third blog post in a waking period.  Anyway.

I finally bit the bullet and put up a real photo of myself on OKC.  Make that two; I put up another one from Halloween of both Susan and I.  I've had an eyeball as my photo ever since I made my profile, mostly due to my fear of someone I work with or have worked with recognizing me and making life hell for me in regards to the military.

I've been in for almost fourteen years now; I'm eligible for retirement at twenty.  I'm committed through to almost seventeen years; I've spent too much of my life involved with the military to feel blase about the possibility of losing my retirement.  I'd be much less worried if I knew what I wanted to be when I grow up...I've waffled over the years of being a teacher, owning my own restaurant, going to school for computer programming, and a whole host of other ideas I've long since forgotten.

Lately, the more realistic idea of continuing to work for the government post-retirement has sat in the pole position.  It'll be reliable, sure, if I can get the job.  But I'm not sure I'll be in a position to get that kind of job after I get out, and I'm also not sure it'll be any kind of enjoyable if I do.  After this long of working simultaneously the easiest and the hardest job I think I could ever do, I really would rather not touch anything even remotely connected to the military in my second career.

If I've learned one thing, though, it's that you don't paint yourself into a corner; allow yourself options instead.  Burning bridges may keep you warm and toasty for a bit, but it's a long, cold walk to the next crossing.  So I keep around the idea of retiring, then getting a civilian version of whatever job I'm doing when I get out.

But all that's at risk if I get booted unceremoniously.  And that's what I fear; options being removed, security taken away.  If it was just me, I wouldn't worry so much.  Even if it was Susan and I alone, we would muddle through somehow.  But it's not.  It's Susan and I, and our kids.  It's their future, in a way.

In one world, the world I'm hoping for them, they only have to move a couple of times more in their childhood.  They'll be able to live in safe neighborhoods, go to good schools, have their own rooms with plenty of room to be themselves, maybe make one or two lifelong friends, have plenty of real food on hand, a snug, tight roof over their heads.

In the other world, the one I fear, they're living the life their mother led for a while, bouncing from place to place to place.  They're not getting the education they need because they're never really settled into their school.  Their parents are on food stamps, and having to choose between paying the lights or paying the water.  And I know that plenty of children come from those environments, and they use that as a drive to push themselves to excel...but I'd really rather avoid that experiment if I could.

So I fear, and I worry.  But really, as has been pointed out to me, there's nothing the military can do to me right now.  I'm not really dating anyone, and they can't boot me for my profile.  It says I'm looking, not that I've found anyone.  My profile and Susan's are also linked, so it's fairly obvious that she's pretty accepting of whatever it is I'm looking for.  So tonight, the real photos went up.  I wonder if I'd had it up from the beginning, if I would have had a much better response to messages sent, or if I would have struck out just as much.

I guess we'll get to see now, won't we?

Got Off My Ass

I did end up taking the munchkins out to the beach this afternoon.  I made sure I took a ball so we had something to do while waiting, and it was a good thing.  We ended up waiting about fifteen minutes or so...and I got to just play catch with both of them.  They really enjoyed that a lot.

They were happy to be at the beach, happy to be out of the house and somewhere they could do mostly what they wanted.  I made sure to dress them warmly, and they needed that, though it was a bit warmer than I had thought it would be.

My youngling was decidedly less happy once Trina showed up with her kid in tow...she had an attitude towards him all afternoon.  We ended up walking about a mile down the beach, took a look at a small river that feeds into the ocean, played around in it for a bit, and then took off back for the cars.

When Trina showed up, we were both quite happy to see each other; she even cuddled into me for a minute, which she normally doesn't do.  Conversation was odd, though...we found things to talk about for the most part, but at one point she asked what I was up to, how my life was going...and I just didn't have anything to say, other than "fine."  The last two weeks, I've been at home every day, mostly online reading blogs, trying to figure out how to make my own bondage frame (which admittedly, I didn't even think of when she asked), making chainmail keyrings, watching sports when I can, failing at finding connections online, and not much else.

It's just...hard to talk sometimes.  We mesh well, we really do...but we also disagree on many topics.  Parenting, functions of laws and rules in society, pot usage, more parenting.  We've had several spirited discussions that really were discussions, not arguments, but we've also had to realize a few times that we just have to agree to disagree.

I do enjoy when we find topics to chat about though.  Most of the time, they're about whatever is going on in her life...which is almost always a lot more than what happens in mine.  I really need to find a way to do more that takes me out of my house.

Lethargy

Trina and I haven't seen each other in almost two weeks.  Susan was down hard with a migraine, and I didn't feel it was fair to leave the kids, including Trina's rambunctious munchkin, with her for it.  We'd just come back from the poly pool party up north, and so we'd already had a busy weekend.  It was a good day all around to chill.

She was busy up until late week, when she made a trip up to her hometown with some friends...so that knocked out all of last weekend.  We've texted a few times since, a couple just kinda laid back, and a couple with more depth due to some stuff going on with her life.  We're going to meet up today, with all the kids in tow, to go visit a park and let them blow off steam, but for the first time ever, if she called and said that she had to cancel, I really wouldn't mind.

I'm an introvert by nature...I need a LOT of alone time.  I don't like being around people in general.  Persons are good, people blow.  Which does put a crimp in my ability to find dates, understood.  It doesn't help that it actually feels like fall finally here, and yesterday was a fairly blustery day.  Today's sunnier, but clouds are still there, it's still chilly, and it's a good day for me to stay inside and do fuck all.

I am wondering, though, how much of it is realizing that Trina will only ever be friends with me.  I'm perfectly fine with knowing that, and I like having someone I can chat with, but the conversation she had with me almost a month ago, where she said that she didn't know if we'd ever have sex again, is finally starting to sink in.  I don't blame her, it's not like she was untruthful at all...it just feels like a shift in my own mind.

It also makes me feel like an ass.  I did offer to just hang out when we met; I did tell her throughout that if she didn't want to have sex, that was fine; I didn't initiate our first encounter...well, kinda.  I'll just say that I responded and up the ante.  But the whole time, I was hoping that she'd even with her foibles about "dating", that she'd want that FWB connection.

It's the whole "nice guy" syndrome, and the only solace I take is that I only had a mild case of it.  Yeah, I was hoping, but when asked, I was pretty honest with what I wanted, and what I felt.  And that hasn't changed.  All I can do is keep on top of that mindset, and make sure it doesn't rear its ugly head worse than it already has.

Complications

I'm used to treating women like men, for the most part.  Certain people are exceptions of course, but only those I have allowed to look at like they are actually women.  Like my wife, for instance.

Except for those limited cases, though, I have trained myself over the years to not make a note whether a woman is pretty or not, attractive or not..and this goes quadruple for the women at work.  I treat them just like guys...what do I need from this person?  What do I need to do *for* this person?  Some small talk at work, ignore once the day is over and I'm at home.  That's it.

I'm now working in the same division as a woman the same rank as me, who is flipping triggers I had thought long dormant.  She's doing nothing really overt, she's just...I don't know, it's little things.  In addition to our job, we also work on the same committee for fundraising and the like for our command, and even though eight other people are supposed to be doing stuff for it, it's really just the two of us for the most part.  And it's the holiday season, so we're both heavily involved with setting up the command's holiday party, so there's frequently a need for us to be chatting together about plans and actions needing to be taken, etc.

It's really nothing, and I know it is.  She's also very happily engaged to another service member, and has shown no real sign of attraction to me, just a bit of mutual respect.  And I do respect her; she and I have worked at the same overarching command for the last few years together, though in different areas.  It's only been in the last few months that I joined her part of the command.  But she's never shown anything but true competence in her job; she's one of the many, many, many women out there who put the lie to the theory that women can't serve well in the military.

But for whatever reason, she's hit my radar.  She doesn't know that I'm polyamorous; I've not spoken a whisper to anyone from work about it.  I have no plans on acting on any attraction, especially since there's no hint of reciprocity.  It's just something I have to deal with; I wasn't expecting to have to start consciously saying to myself, "No, you can't have her.  Bad Sailor, no grog for you."
________

In other news, Susan has a new date tonight; no name for him yet.  Let's see if he survives tonight before he gets an alias!  She's been down hard with a cold for nearly a week; she's feeling better but is still all sniffly.  He's also two to three inches shorter than she is, and she has a decided preference for taller guys.  Since she's rather tall herself, that means anyone of "average" height ends up being too short for her...but we'll see.

He's also a bit of a complication himself; he's in the military as well, same branch as I am.  Neither of us knows what his rank is yet, so I'm not sure how to look at him. I'm hoping to find out from her when she comes home tonight; she figured it'll make for good dinner conversation.

When I brought that last paragraph up to Trina tonight; she responded somewhat negatively to us(me) wanting to know, because she equates "So what is your rank?" to "How much do you make?"  I disagree...I'd never take it that way, especially for someone who's made it far enough to retire.  Bare minimum, he matches my rank.  I only want to know because there is a difference in how to treat him, even if he is retiring.

He also lives 45 minutes away...closer than Ryan, by a fair bit, but far enough that a spontaneous visit really is somewhat of a hassle.  Which, admittedly, is looking far down the road...but then again, not really all that far, if you think about it.  We'll see what tonight brings, maybe I'll get to name him later this week!

Doldrums

Susan and I have had sex only once or twice the last two weeks. Not for lack of desire; more that life has gotten in the way. It started last week with the shift in clocks...it meant that by the time kids were shuffled off to bed, we were both ready to pass out ourselves. Trina even found out, and gave me kind of a verbal slap to the head.

I'd intended to take care of things this week, but for one reason or another, we just haven't been able to connect. It doesn't help that Susan had even specifically asked for pain, which means I need to get in the right mindset. And that just hasn't happened lately, for whatever reason.

The  this weekend started up. Trina was off visiting extended family for the weekend, and Susan and Ray weren't meeting up in either location. So for the first time in a few months, it was just the two of us...with no outside pressures. No birthdays, no anniversaries, no events...just us.

So of fucking course Susan gets sick. Whoever's in charge of script-writing my life needs to be introduced to the business end of a shovel.

Repeatedly.

With great vigor.

DIY or Bust!

I've been looking for DIY plans for a bondage...stand? Tower? Frame?  Not sure what the hell to call it...anyways, I hadn't really liked anything I'd found.  Most of the plans either require tools I don't even own, let alone know how to use, or else look extremely shaky.  I'd finally hit on the idea of just taking a 4"x4"x8' beam and, using hinges, attaching 2"x4"s about 5' up the side, so it could set up as a tripod.  Then I drew it out...for the stable platform I wanted, the full 90° angle, the legs would have been humongously long!  Oops.  That was all rough free hand, so I might have been off by a foot or two, but still.  Taking it to a lesser angle would have been better, but the ensuing stand didn't look sturdy enough.

So last night I went back to the drawing board, so to speak, and found this post at Spiritual BDSM talking about using a Cypress Swing Stand as a bondage frame.  The stand is lovely to look at, a true work of art, aaaaand just a teensie bit out of my price range.  Even with tax return season coming up, there's other things we can spend that kind of money on. But it did start me looking at porch swing stands in general, and while there are some out there that would work, affordable ones either look clunky or else have reviews talking crap about the assembly/directions/parts/durability.

I think in the end I'm going to make my own after all, albeit it much less decoratively than the inspiration, and just mirror Michael's Cypress Stand and let it overhang our headboard.  We definitely have the ceiling room, and the only issue we might have is that it might get in the way of our nightstands.  If that's the case, I've already checked and it'll fit in front of our bedroom window; we can hang fake plants or something off of it to disguise it for our kids.

Edit: Should have noted, my goal is to have this done by Christmas...I have initial plans drawn up (thankfully, Excel can make great graph paper if you set it up right!)  I just have to price materials and go from there.

Evolution of Ideas

A common theme for Susan is an evolution of her thoughts.  It was that way when we first started this whole venture into poly, it was that way when she was trying to figure out what she was jealous over with Trina, and it's that way now for what she wants for us.

She came up with a term, one that's probably seen the light of day before, but one which I'd never seen: she says that she is emotionally bisexual, but physically straight, or at least mostly.  She wants to cuddle with another woman, even when no clothes exist, and would likely have no trouble playing with another woman's boobs, but just doesn't want to venture below the waist.  Makes sense to me.

Long Term Goals / Short Term Plans

After the events of the other night, when Trina told me that she didn't really envision us having a sexual relationship (or any relationship that could be considered more than FWB), Susan and I sat up talking of all things poly, at least insofar as they related to us.

Of note, we rehashed ideal body types for me...for once not in a "I'm jealous of the way she looks" discussion.  Instead, it turned into a dialogue over why I chose her if my "type" is something that she's not.  My response was that looks aren't everything.  We just mesh really well, and have ever since we first met.  You don't get that with everyone, and it was the one reason I couldn't stay away after she tried to work her previous marriage out.

We moved from there on to ideal matches...Trina is definitely not that, not what I'm looking for long term.  And Susan knows that, and was saddened for me when we realized she wouldn't be.  As it turns out, what both of us want is a live-in, long term (preferably lifetime) girlfriend for me.  Susan wants a boyfriend that lives in the same house, but doesn't necessarily want to share sleeping space with him.  Odd, and she doesn't exactly know why, but true.

What she does want, and what matches my desires, is another woman to share our bed...well, a larger bed, really.  Which is odd, because both of us are straight...but she wants to cuddle with and around another woman.  So, basically, a unicorn who doesn't need to necessarily be attracted to Susan, but can mesh with both of us reasonably well, and doesn't mind coming into a family situation.

I have a feeling my journey for such a match make Odysseus' trek home look like a walk in the park.

___

In other news, Susan and I were invited to a regionally semi-famous poly party a couple of weeks from now.  Trina has graciously agreed to watch our kids overnight, and it'll be the first time Ryan, Susan, and I have gone anywhere all together.  There's plans for discussion groups and the like throughout the night.  My hope is that the groups are small enough that everyone who wants to contribute actually can.

Our local poly group last month had, for the first time since I started going, more than 15 or so people show...and it ended up being more like fifty!  The dynamic of the discussion between my first few times going and that last one was totally and completely different, and I know that many people ended up getting skipped over.

I think the best part of the party is that it specifies that there are children attending, so sexual activities are verboten for the evening.  For a first time attending that kind of party, it'll help both of us feel more comfortable, I think.  The more I think about it, the more I look forward to attending...and so does Susan!

Attempt is...BLOCKED!

Juggling alone time with young children around is occasionally troublesome, on the whole.  In my recent life, the word "occasionally" is defined as "every single bloody time I'm alone with Trina."

Well, to be fair, last weekend we weren't quite alone...we also had Susan in bed with us.  We were attempting to have a semi-drunken...cuddle party.  Yeah, we'll call it that.  Only problem was, while my kids go down to bed relatively easily, her munchkin hates sleep with the unholy passion usually reserved for dieters chasing after a pack of Oreos.

He was left alone downstairs to watch a movie to calm down, and when we went down to check to see if he was becoming sleepy, nope.  He had infiltrated the pantry and had an array of snacks and juice boxes all around him...sigh.  So that all got cleaned up, and then at the end of the movie, Trina went to collect him with the intention of putting him on the end of our bed, and letting him fall asleep to the show we were watching.  Of course, he fought and struggled every step of the way...by the time he passed out and I carried him to the spare mattress, it was already close to 11pm and Trina was out.

I cuddled with Susan for a while, and started playing with her.  As we were getting into that, Trina woke behind us, and so it was, for a short time, rather interesting.  Susan finished off, and we lay there chatting for a while.  Then, it was Trina's turn to receive some attention...and of course, JUST as her shorts come off, her munchkin wakes up and comes in.  She's over it, calls it a night, gets dressed and takes him downstairs to the couch to sleep.

Fast forward to last night.  Ryan was down visiting Susan, and just generally hanging out.  Dinner was done, nothing else was going on, and we were planning to watch Trina's kid later in the evening so she could attend a party with another guy.  No big deal; we had a couple of hours still, so I asked if she could give me a massage, since she wanted practice anyways.

Table was set up, we lock the door behind us for privacy, and before I can make it to the table, we start making out.  KNOCK, KNOCK...Susan needed something out of our bathroom, mood broken.  No worries, there's still plenty of time for the massage, and if we want to do anything after.  Except...Susan and Ryan are taking off to go get ice cream, and some essentials from the store.

Now, to be fair, Ryan is normally asleep by 8:30pm, because he has to be up fairly early in the morning.  It was about 6pm at this point, so I could kinda get it, especially since they had plans to watch a movie later.  But with them gone, it meant that we were the supervising adults for three kids, two of which get into frequent arguments with each other.  But a movie was in for them, so I figured it wasn't worth making them wait.

Cue massage.  And it went well, she actually does know her stuff, and she liked that she didn't have to drape me with sheets or anything...meant that she could actually reach all the muscles she wanted.  No groping on her table, solid rule for her, which I get...forms bad habits.

About ten minutes from the end, and I'm thinking once we're done, maybe we could finish what we started before I hopped up on the table.  Which, OF BLOODY COURSE, meant that the kids needed to shriek and yell bloody murder at each other.  Mood broken, massage done.

_____

Later in the evening, Trina was off to her party, her kid was sound asleep on the couch, my kids were down, and Ryan was asleep upstairs in our bed (I was being nice, and also watching DVR'd football games).  Susan came down to apologize for not realizing that she was potentially screwing up our alone time.

Apparently I am more aware of how my actions affect those around me then I thought...and also more aware than she is of how her actions affect me and others.  She's just obliviously moving through her life, and so for now at least, if I see something that might mean a possible misunderstanding or hard feelings come up, I need to tell her beforehand.

I felt better after the talk, but it didn't stop me from being a little hurt over it.  I'm bending over backwards to make damn sure whenever Ryan visits that they have enough time to themselves, for whatever they want to do.  Granted, Trina and I see each other far more, and Susan does watch her son so that we can go dancing most weeks, but that's not the same.  Her apartment is a single bedroom, and while I have gone over there a couple times during the week, by the time her son passes out, it's late enough that I need to leave due to work in the morning.  So the one time we have a chance to have other people watching the kids...and she takes off.

It's an issue, but it's one we can work through...and at least she's aware of the consequences of what happened now.  After the fact, of course, but aware nonetheless.

______

Edit: Later in the evening after writing this, Trina had come back to our place after dancing, and before we ate I cleared with both Susan and Trina some alone time for Trina and I upstairs.

This didn't exactly go as planned though; once we went into hiding, she expressed an issue over me casually commenting that Susan had said that I should take Trina out on a date at some point.  The topic of going out wasn't the problem, it was the word "date"...because the word is important, and she doesn't want me to be a boyfriend, or someone she dates.  We can do almost everything a boyfriend or a steady date does apparently, but using either term is a no-no.  I hope to eventually find someone who can explain that to me, but for now, whatever.
 
Not only that, but she also expressed reservations about having sex again.  I guess she was indeed truthful, in that she usually wants to have sex with her friends once just to get over the curiosity.  Of course, it doesn't stop either of us from playing with each other.  But for now, and for the foreseeable future, no Tab A into Slot B.

Issues.  They exist.  They're manageable, but they exist. 

Just Keep Digging...

Susan continues to work her way through her own insecurities in regards to the relationship between Trina and I. She's even seeking out a poly-friendly shrink, to help her. I can tell her all day long that she should listen to her what her logic is telling her, not her head, but then again since I'm the one that's involved...yeah.

I'm hoping she can actually resolve some of her fears...she actually managed to work it beyond the friendship thing, even beyond the whole fear of being less fun. It took her a bit, but she realized it stems from fear of abandonment...not from anything as a kid, but as an adult she's lost pretty much everyone she considered a friend, even before we moved away.  They all just moved on with their lives, and she got left behind. She's worried that I'll do the same.

I don't know how to comfort her well enough...I hope her psych can help her comfort herself.

Arr, Thar Be Dangerous Waters Ahead, Cap'n!

Last night Trina came over.  She's a massage therapist, though unlicensed, and hasn't had a chance to practice in a while.  So she came over, brought her table and gear, and I made sure Susan got first crack at a nearly professional massage.

After it was over, they came down and we all watched random TV until it was time for Trina to take off with her munchkin. Then she realized that her table was still upstairs and that she was dead tired.

She ended up crashing on our couch for the night; her kids was asleep on a bean bag our kids have, so he was taken care of.  I cuddled with her a bit before heading upstairs to bed.

Next morning I woke up super early to get ready for work...Susan was actually awake for once and got dressed and came down as well.  Trina woke up shortly before that, and so was able to pack her stuff up for an early departure.  As I was leaving, both women were standing at the door.  I had an awkward moment of "which do I hug first?"...not an everyday occurence for me, let me tell you!

Solution: group hug!  They laughed at the situation, and assured me that I'd handled it the best I could.  Of course, I made sure that each got their own hug and smooch before taking off...but that was definitely a new experience!

Jealousy, Redux

Last month, we bought tickets to a Halloween themed event at a semi-local theme park. I had figured I'd be able to get time off from work for a couple of days, to allow me to be able to go with them and not be completely wiped at work after the late drive back. It takes about two hours, in absolute best traffic, to get there, and the event was scheduled to open up at 3pm. I already knew it'd most likely be something like 1:30-2am before we got back.

Of course, I was unable to get out of work, and knew in advance that I wouldn't be able to get home until around 4pm...which put the travel up right into rush hour.  So I told Susan to just take the kids up, so they at least could enjoy themselves.

With Susan's knowledge, I made plans with Trina to just go over to her house right after work to hang out. We passed the time together, and I got occasional updates throughout the night as to what Susan and the kids were up to. I ended up going home about midnight, and stayed up til Susan brought the kids home about an hour later.

After all the unwinding of a fun day at the theme park, and installing the kids into their slumber receptacles, Susan told me that while what she had said last week was true, that she was jealous over the friendship Trina and I had, she was worried that I would think that Trina was more fun to be around, and eventually decide that our house wouldn't be "home" to me anymore.

Setting aside the fact that Trina is also married, and very much looking forward to her husband coming home (as well as the occasional date with other people she meets), I've lived with Susan for almost a decade.  I have absolutely no reason to abandon her in pursuit of another happily married (though poly) woman.  And I made sure that Susan knew that, and heard that from me.

I'm not exactly sure why I feel no jealousy towards her interactions with Ryan.  It almost comes as a relief to know that she is actually having those feelings in regards to myself and Trina...it kind of puts some sort of normalcy back into our lives, if that makes sense!

She made the suggestion, though only that - not a requirement - that I limit seeing Trina once during the week, not counting weekends.  We need to revisit that...I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that, especially with how fluid everyone's schedule is.  I can understand why she wants that, but we'll have to see.

Roots of Jealousy

So before we opened the doors to polyamory (well, this time anyway), Susan and I had several discussions over jealousy on both ends.  When I asked how she would feel if I started a relationship with another woman, she responded by saying that most likely, she would have an issue with it, until she could become adjusted to the situation.

Some background:  Susan has a slight cognitive disability, stemming from a bad car accident years ago.  She has some difficulty concentrating, especially when something is being told to her.  It also reduces her ability to multi-task to nearly nil.  Finally, her short term memory is almost non-existent.  She has to set reminders whenever I ask her to do something, or whenever she knows a task needs to be accomplished.

All of this means that, especially coupled with the on again-off again school scheduling where we live, that she hasn't been able to find a job that would be worth the time and effort.  She hasn't really worked at all since before our elder child was born...and thus she feels rather dependent upon me for the basic needs.  She also has some weight issues; she's rather tall, just a couple inches shorter than I am...so that accounts for some of it.  But she never lost all of her baby weight, and she's self conscious about her body anyway.

So she has some understandable insecurities about our stability, even with us being married for almost nine years, and even without any true fight between us for that entire time.  We sat down this week, the day after Trina and I broke down the sexual wall between us, and discussed all of that, and worked our way through her jealousy.

What was really interesting was that Susan couldn't pin down what it was.  She had no problem with the sex.  She had some problems with who it was with, but recognized that it wasn't really her call to make past a certain point. 

Now, to be fair, she DID have an issue with Trina, in that T wasn't willing to enter a sort-of-exclusive, more romantic commitment.  She had hoped that I would enter a more...loving, I guess, type of relationship, something that would result in her becoming part of the family overall.

But then, we don't always get what we're looking for.  In all honesty, I would never have thought I'd end up with someone like Susan...both physically as well as in temperament.  I had always had an image of someone else in my head...and then I met her and all that went out the window.  It's so far ended up the same with Trina.  I want one thing, but here's something else...Susan calls it settling, and maybe to a certain extent it is, but I also know that Trina is not very likely to be a lifelong companion either.

In this case, I'm walking in, knowing what's going on, and knowing that it's not likely to last.  I do, however, get some fun experiences (not all about the sex...I'd never have willingly gone for dancing if she hadn't followed up with me), as well as some much needed experience in dealing with women as a whole.  Keep in mind, I've only ever dated two women prior to Trina...one of whom I've been married to for almost a decade.  It kind of skews my perceptions about women in general to a certain extent.

After discussing all of that, Susan broke down her fears of me leaving, either with Trina, who's "perfect for me" (uh, no...nowhere near perfect), or with someone like her down the road.  I comforted her with the truth of the matter...that I am not willing to lose Susan over other people.  I did ask if she wanted me to stop seeing her, and talked about the fact that if one of us was poly, then that meant that both of us was.  In the end, she was very quick to decline my offer of rolling things back into monogamy...topic closed there, for now at least.

I made sure I gave her my attention while we were talking, and in the end she was mostly comforted...later in the week, just prior to us attending a poly meetup, she disclosed that she finally nailed down what she was jealous over: not the sex, but the friendship I have with Trina.  We chat over text a fair amount, and she's been around a fair bit.  I'd thought that Susan had a similar style of dialogue with Ryan, but apparently they're not as chatty as I'd thought, which is kind of a shame.

Once she realized that, though, she was able to work herself past it and put herself on solid ground.  Overall, I'm thankful that we had the experience we did this week...it showed that we can still communicate like adults, and work through problems instead of arguing about them and having it affect our relationship in a negative way.

Where We Stop, Nobo - Oh, Here!

Well, that was not what I expected...

Trina had her date last Saturday, and while she didn't exactly get to have sex, she and her date did at least enjoy themselves immensely.  She showed up early Sunday morning to retrieve her youngling, and ended up staying a little later than she thought she would.  She did eventually take her kid though, which left me time to take care of stuff around the house.

She came back in plenty of time for us to make dancing, and actually get our lesson this week.  Some of the basic moves finally clicked for me, and I did a lot better during the lesson.  I was looking forward to putting that lesson to use...but I'd noticed Trina had went to sit down towards the end of the lesson.  (The way they do it is kind of round-robin, for the lesson anyway.  They show a move, you practice a few times with one person, then everyone rotates around the room.  Social plus you get a feel for how different people move.)

When the lesson ended, I went to ask if she wanted back on the floor to try and put everything together, only to find out that she had an upset stomach.  So we made our apologies and drove back home.  Her stomach was better, but still not 100% by the time we got home, so we made our way upstairs to lay down and cuddle for a bit while the kids played downstairs and outside.

We settled on a movie, and lay down to watch...and then her hand started roaming.  Now, to be fair, she had kind of teased before, especially since I tend to wear loose shorts.  She'd let her hand run underneath, just kind of touching the high thigh area and nothing more.  That definitely was not a barrier this time, and one thing led to another.  Thankfully, I'd had the foresight to buy condoms and stash them prior.

We finished, put ourselves together while finishing watching our movie, then went downstairs to start dinner and hang out with Susan.  That night, there was no issue.  After Trina left, Susan and I had a chat about things, and she promised me she had no problem with any of it.

Cue the next day.  After I got home from work, Susan told me that she realized that she was jealous after all, and so we sat down and talked about it.  We went back and forth, trying to pin down what it was she was jealous over...because it wasn't just a generic, green eyed monster kind of thing.

More on the discussion in the next post, but we talked and everything came out okay.

So then later that night, the topic of testing came up...one I really should have had before, but I figured with a condom and with what I knew of her recent sex life, it wasn't too much of a risk.  We got all the questions answered to our satisfaction, awkward though it was over text.

Wednesday I was supposed to go over to her house so I could spend time with her without her kid and our youngest going toe to toe, especially since the next day she was babysitting for us.  Of course, what's the ONE freaking day that I have to work way stupid late?  So I didn't get to see her then.  Thursday was very brief; Susan and I dropped our munchkins off at her place so we could go to a poly meetup (mostly a waste of time).

Today Susan left to go see Ryan after a couple weeks of not being able to; he's in the middle of moving...I had the opportunity to go over to her place while she was getting it ready for her date from last week and his wife to come over for a night there, but Susan wanted to leave before all the traffic hit...so that was a no-go.  We're supposed to meet tomorrow morning, but then she has plans early afternoon on into the night, so I'm probably going to be sleeping alone for the next couple of nights until Susan gets back.

All in all, a confusing, wild ride of a week.

Round and Round We Go...

Susan and Ryan had a good visit with each other, from all I hear.  They were able to attend another poly group in his neck of the woods, and for whatever reason closed groups were the bane of their existence during the meeting.  Triads or Quads just didn't work, in their eyes.  No idea why.

On the home front, Trina did come over.  We watched the first movie of the original Star Wars trilogy (or, in her words, the only Star Wars...episodes 1-3 do not exist in her world.  I didn't ask about Clone Wars.)  She came over late enough that our youngling was already down in bed, and the older one was just about ready for bed as well, so it ended up being a quiet night.

She did forget her table, so no massage for me...sadness.  We pretty much stayed cuddled up for the whole movie; her son made it about halfway through the movie and then passed out.  He got shifted off to a spare kid mattress, and shortly before midnight we went lights out.

It's been quite some time since I've done a "first night sleeping" with someone new.  I'd forgotten how absurdly awkward it can be in some ways, and how hyper aware I am of the other person.  As well, Susan and I have, over time, developed this thing where we cuddle until we're about ready to pass out, then retreat to our separate sides of the bed.  She's more stable in her sleep (except when she isn't), and I'm an A1 certified night tosser.

So it was kind of a shock to my system to find that Trina was, in another life, a barnacle.  I'm exceedingly thankful we didn't try that during the hot nights a couple weeks ago...we'd have just melted into goo.  I ended up getting more sleep than she did...and mine wasn't much, at least restful.  We woke up about 6ish for good, but spent the next couple of hours just laying in bed and talking before finally giving up the ghost and going downstairs for breakfast and the other two parts of the set.

Trina and I ended up going to dancing again Sunday; it took me about an hour to remember all the stuff I'd forgotten from the first lesson.  I had thought there wasn't to be a lesson this time, but was wrong...so everyone was wanting to try some of the new stuff, I'm supposed to be leading the women who are dancing with me, and I'm just drawing complete blanks.  We had fun though!

As we were coming up to the place where the dance was being held, though, she made an offhand remark that basically said that it was because I'm military that she doesn't want to go further.  Which makes some sense...her husband is getting ready to get out very early next year, and she's disillusioned with it entirely.

But that only goes so far. It's not like I'm planning missions, or am in charge of anything remotely resembling policy.  I'd understand it a lot more if we were single, dating with the intention of getting together...many people are just not cut out to be military spouses, and that's fine.  But she approaches it, at least from what I can tell, as an active dislike that the military exists. (Political leanings, and that's as far as I'm going with that.)

So it makes her stop and wonder, and second (or fourth) guess herself.  How far does she take things with me before her principles bend?  How far before something gives?  To be fair, she does understand that she is being rather on the fence about things, and has apologized repeatedly.  Last night, she came over, and cuddled on the couch with me while watching another movie.  For someone who doesn't want to take things to the next level, she was definitely doing a lot of teasing...both of herself and of me.  Today, she apologized again for it, and what I told her was this:

If I was single, I might be wanting to push things toward a resolution more.  But I'm not, and I am enjoying the journey to wherever this is leading us.  Take it for what it is, and have fun with it. 

I've basically told her, repeatedly, that I'm not going to force the issue, and that sex is her choice.  I think it's starting to sink in that I'm really not going to get upset at her, that I am going to tease right back, and generally just have a good time whenever she's around.  She's also going on a date with someone else Saturday (I know this because we're watching her munchkin overnight that night), and hopefully for her sake she gets laid and is able to calm down somewhat.  I don't want her making a choice she'll regret just because she needs sex that badly.  I'd rather her say no to me entirely, or else come to me because she legitimately wants to be with me.

Push Me, Pull You

Labor Day weekend saw Ryan down for an overnight visit (Saturday afternoon to Monday morning).  We made an event out of it, and invited Trina and her son over as well.  For the most part, everyone enjoyed themselves...I made barbecued chicken and everyone fairly well stuffed themselves with food.  Ryan and Trina's son were okay around each other, and there weren't any major problems with the kids as a whole, for a change.

Ryan ended up taking my spot in my bed for the duration of his visit.  I sleep on my stomach, and all the itchiness meant that I really didn't want to sleep on it.  So I ended up sleeping downstairs on our new couch...more comfortable than our old one, but not really a bed replacement.  It did, however, mean that I was likely the coolest person in the house.  The last week of August is typically the most stifling, and the only week that we really wish we had AC.  This year, that extended about a week into September, and in our house, all the hot air rises to the second floor.  Being on the ground floor myself, I actually had somewhat of a breeze through the windows.  I wasn't going to argue with that!

This last weekend was a busy one.  We watched Trina's son on Firday night so she could go out...so thankful that I don't have boys.  On Saturday she watched our girls for the evening, so we could go watch a standup comedy show we got free tickets for.  Then Sunday she dropped off her kid and the two of us went off to go learn how to swing dance.

I proved that I have absolutely no place on a dance floor (but we're going back this Sunday anyways).  Toward the end of the evening, though, and on our way back home, she basically offered up sex.  I wasn't really prepared for it, and when she asked how I felt about it, I wasn't really able to say anything but "this is all new to me" and talk about my own lack of history in dating.  We followed up the next day; I told her that I had a few reservations...her husband being deployed, logistics of where we'd hook up (she's in a one bedroom apt and her kid sleeps in the same room as her), and then addressing some stuff she'd shared about her own history of sex.  Basically, I just needed to work my way through it in my head...and that was enough room that she had second thoughts.

She'd already said she didn't want a true relationship with me, and confirmed that she'd only be friends with benefits at best...I'm not sure how that would work out.  But in the time it took me to think about it, she'd already made up her mind to reverse the offer and confirm the friendzone.

Then last night we were texting back and forth, and she made the comment that she was "going to explode if she didn't get laid.  If I was interested."  Now, there's two ways to take that...we were, admittedly, discussing some TMI stuff prior to.  It could have been construed as the obvious, "are you interested in sex?" or also as "just in case you wanted to know what I'm going through, here's what I'm feeling."  Guess which one it ended up being?  There was further conversation, where I made the offer to sleep over - we were also making plans to watch movies this weekend, and then she made sure to backtrack and specify that she still "does not want a sexual relationship with me right now.''

I have known women who would blow my half of the conversation completely out of the water, and I know guys who would have gotten extremely pissed at seemingly being offered sex and then having it yanked away.  There's many, many ways that particular exchange could have made things go downhill very fast...and for both of us, we managed to navigate the miscommunication effectively enough that plans are still on for a movie night sleepover, in bed (since Susan will be visiting Ryan).

And then today she sends me a text offering to bring her massage table to give me a full massage to keep in practice (she actually went to school for that, so it makes sense.)  I think she just likes tormenting herself.  And me.  /facepalm

Damn You, Day Star!

Last weekend I took both of our girls and met up with Trina and her son at the beach while Susan was visiting Ryan.  My first time in Pacific waters, and holy hells is that water cold!  Kids all had fun and we went back to Trina's for homemade pizza and a round of Yahtzee before calling it a night.

During my trip to the beach though, I decided against sunblocking myself...including my neon white torso.  You know the sunburned beach dude from Lilo and Stitch?  I looked like a (thankfully) skinnier version of him after all was said and done.  By Wednesday evening, I'd started peeling on my belly, and as the skin came off, a horrible, horrible rash awaited underneath.  I now itch.  A lot.  Calamine has worked, as well as a spray, but damn...next time, on goes the sunblock.

Also Wednesday, Trina and son came over to have dinner (chicken and dumplings), with a game and movie afterwards.  Susan ended up going upstairs partway through the movie, about the time it was bedtime for our munchkins for school the next day.  Her son cuddled her for a while, then passed out and got placed into one of the kids' bean bag chairs.

Trina then scooted over next to me, then asked if she could lay her head in my lap to watch the movie.  And I let her, and we cuddled through the rest of the movie.  After movie was over, she went off home with her kid, and bed (and itches) awaited afterwards.

For someone who has professed to only wants to be friends, though, she sends some decidedly mixed messages...hinting strongly about wanting to break in new high heels, laying her head in my lap, playing footsie at dinner, along with some other stuff that Susan has seen and I haven't really picked up on.  The last time I was truly friends with a woman, in person, definitely did not have the same dynamic...that was much more of a sister/brother thing.

I don't know if she really is just wanting to be friends, if she does but likes flirting anyways, or if she's wanting me to be more aggressive in pursuing her...she has mentioned that she enjoys submission, and her mannerisms definitely back her up, from what I've seen.

We also discussed swapping babysitting duties; her stated reason was so that she could meet up with another guy she likes, for a date night.  That one brought me up short...not because of what she said, but because of my own reaction to it.  See, with Susan and Ryan, the only jealousy I had was that I didn't have someone to chat with, or meet up with, or whatever outside of Susan at the time.  I had no problem with their budding relationship, as a relationship.  I did, for an instant, feel jealousy that Trina wanted to meet up with someone else though...and that shocked me.

Then I realized that A) we're not dating anyway, so I have no leg to stand on there, and B) that's kind of how poly works.  I accepted that she is married, and her husband does exist and will be coming home soon (well, for varying qualities of "soon" anyways)...it just threw me for a loop that there was another party she wanted to be involved with.  Admittedly, some of that jealousy is most likely the fact that she has stated she does not want a relationship with me...we're kind of treading that line, though.  Anyways, once I worked through it all, the jealousy went away, and we've more or less agreed to swap kids for evenings out in adult company all around.  As Pa Ingalls put it, "All's well than ends well."

...And Course Correction to the Right Just a Touch...

Susan made some comments this week about Trina, stating that she thought she was more into me than I was picking up.  She pointed out her manner of dress, the fact that she had makeup on for a casual night of dinner at a friend's house, as well as some mannerisms.  Today Trina followed up with a text about getting new shoes, and wishing she could get out of the house to properly break them in.

So I invited her for an evening out, saying that Susan had already agreed to babysit so she could get a break.  The response back was as I suspected, a reiteration of "friends only" at this point, especially because I'm military.  Understandable, and I'm just glad the air is cleared.  The invite still stands, though, so we were trying to figure out what to do for a night out.

She doesn't drink much, and I don't drink at all, so for my purposes a bar is mostly out of the question.  Maybe for live music, but there needs to be another draw for me.  I looked up local standup comedy shows, but didn't like anything that was coming up soon.  Then she asked me about dancing...I told her I'd never danced before, and I needed something like ballroom dancing lessons to even feel remotely comfortable going out for a night of dancing.

Cue both of us looking up local dance lessons, and to make a long story short, looks like we found a place that does a lesson for an hour each week, followed immediately after by a dance for a few hours.  Susan has agreed, in theory at least, to watch Trina's munchkin weekly...we'll see once she has to handle the ball of energy for a full evening every week!

Hang a Left...Here!

So it turns out that I had actually missed a reply to a message I'd sent, this one to a girl named Trina.  She was one who was only looking for poly friendly people to hang out with, and that was the basic tone of what I'd sent her.

We had her and her munchkin over for dinner last Saturday; I made lasagna, and since I was making it and she doesn't like beef or pork, I just said "screw it" and made two batches.  Frozen leftovers for a while!  There was a bit of awkwardness there; her husband is out of the country for a while, so I couldn't get a sense of things from his point of view.  But we were able to overcome it; we introduced her to Ticket to Ride and she had fun with that.

The low point of the night was when her son, about 3ish, was swinging a bat we have for the kids and it hit our youngling in the face...she was okay, but the bat disappeared really quickly!  We ended up just sitting around the game board after all was done, chatting about various things until our daughter decided it was time for Trina's son to leave, because it was her bedtime...and then proceeded to strip down so she could change for bed.  ::sigh::

Susan and I had already decided to have her boyfriend, Ryan, down for Labor Day.  Maybe being around me an extra day would calm his quite understandable jitters.  So with that in mind, we asked Trina if she wanted to bring her son on over for the same.  We thought briefly about having Angie and Erik over as well, but with their need to smoke pot, and the extra kid around, decided against.  Besides, Erik and Susan have fallen out of daily contact for some reason.  So it'll be us, Ryan, Trina, and Trina's son for a cookout...if I can remember to get a filled propane tank between now and then.

The next day, I realized that I might have sent the wrong message by just inviting her for Labor Day, two weeks away.  So I followed up, made sure she knew she was welcome before then, and the fallout was that she came over Tuesday (last night) for dinner again.  We played Settlers of Catan afterwards, though Susan bowed out due to an unrelated bad mood and headache.  Kids played much more agreeably this time, though neither of the two youngest wanted to eat any part of dinner.

We settled in to watch Across the Universe, the musical set to a bunch of Beatles songs, and tried to put her son down in our youngling's room on a spare kid mattress.  The idea was to give her some time to relax, with other adults, with her kid elsewhere...but no.  Three year olds are three year olds, and within ten minutes of being tucked into bed, he was downstairs being all kinds of fussy...and of course, hungry.  And what was Susan making by now?  Cookies.  Sheesh.  So instead of getting some almost one-on-one time with her alone, in a relaxed environment, she was getting sidetracked by a fussy, hungry, sleepy three year old who wanted to ask a billion questions about the movie.

To her credit, Trina was MUCH more patient with her kid than I would have been if either of mine had been pulling the same stuff.  I don't know if it's just the difference between being a father and being a mother, or if it's the differences in her whole state of mind, but whatever it was, she was very understanding and patient with him.  She did eventually bail, though, about 45 mins before movie's end, since he obviously wasn't going to let up until he got home.

We texted back and forth today; Susan will be out of town this Saturday visiting Ryan and helping him deal with some personal fallout on his end (after three years of renting a room with another couple, he got told this week he had to leave by month's end...suck city).  So Trina and I have decided that we're going to take the kids to the beach together, and we'll probably go back to her apartment afterwards.

I'm not sure how things are going to end up.  She had initially posted looking for friends only, and we've definitely gotten there.  Susan thinks that Trina likes me a bit more than that, due to clues that I apparently looked right over, and on the plus side, Susan has already said that I should invite her out, and that she'd watch the munchkin so that the two of us could get some alone time.

I'm wanting to take it slow...her husband won't be back until late in the year, and she says that he is perfectly fine with things.  I have no reason to disbelieve her, but then I have no reason to believe her 100% either.  Even if he is perfectly fine with poly-ville, it'd be different if he was accessible, even for just an afternoon meet-and-greet.  But with him gone, and considering how I met Susan to begin with (not my finest hour, but it ended up alright...for us, anyway), I'm somewhat leery of intentionally provoking our budding friendship into a relationship.

I have a feeling, though, that I'm going to end up there.

Changeup

So this weekend, instead of feverishly baking and cleaning, I actually had a more relaxed Saturday.  Susan and I ordered in three games after watching them be played on the TableTop series on Youtube:  Settlers of Catan, Small World, and Ticket to Ride.  See, in most cases, Susan has always hated games...she didn't grow up in a competitive household like I did, so games have always been a rather "meh" thing for her.  There's been exceptions of course, but other than the very occasional game of Gin Rummy, getting her to play anything has been like pulling teeth.  Even as our older munchkin started to become of age to get interested in games, getting her to play Monopoly, or Life, or anything like that has always been a struggle.

I decided to buy Munchkin Booty a while back, and actually got both Susan and the kid to play, and then she saw that Wil Wheaton had a web series around games, and had to watch.  Now that she knows how to play those games, of course we had to get them!  So we ordered them, and they came in the mail yesterday.  Due to bowling (for me) and dance (for the youngling), we didn't get to play any of them last night.

So today I broke them all out, and did solo playthroughs to get the hang of them, then played all of them (and then Small World again after) with the kid to get her used to the rules. I'm sure we'll end up playing something tomorrow...most likely Ticket to Ride, and it'll be nice not having to start at ground zero for rules of the game.  It, um, did also give me a bit of an advantage, as I now have a better idea for what works in each game...but hey, that's what she gets for leaving me alone with unplayed games!

Susan was supposed to go hiking with Ryan today; from what I understand, they had to switch trails.  The one originally planned on is downhill to begin with, then back uphill to wherever the starting point was.  We went hiking yesterday since I had the day off, and found that she doesn't do uphill very well, especially in the middle of the hike...so they scratched that idea and went to another trail that ended in waterfalls instead.  She sent me a message afterwards; no bears munching on her and her knee held up okay, so all was good there.

I've sent a few people on the dating site I'm on messages to try and start conversations.  At the beginning of this I'd at least get a start of a conversation going...it might not have gone anywhere, but at least there'd be an attempt.  Lately, anyone I've messaged doesn't bother; even the ones who state outright they're just looking for poly-friendly couple to hang with visit in response, and don't bother leaving a reply.  I had Susan take a picture while we were out hiking yesterday...hopefully after I get that uploaded I can get a better response & visitor rate.  It's the only thing I can think of...since I'm too scared to show a plain image due to the whole military thing, I've got extreme closeups of my face instead.  I'll dump those and throw in the hiking image, make sure my face is somewhat shadowed, and toss that up...hopefully it works a bit better.

Can't do any worse, really.

Curveball

Earlier in the week, I had asked Susan if Ryan wanted to come over to our place tonight, and have basically a second evening of cuddles.  I bowl on Fridays, at least for another few weeks, and this would have been a perfect chance to get a bit extra time together before going back up to his place for all of Saturday.

He declined, since he was already planning on coming down next Saturday for dinner and gaming.  Which makes sense; and he can come a night early then and all will be well.  Then he ran into a hiccup in plans...he remembered that a close family member of his is having a birthday party that weekend.

He then asked if Susan wanted to come out and meet his family, knowing that he hadn't come out as poly to them yet.  She's not comfortable taking off her wedding ring (and the mark on the finger would be evident anyway), and she's a horrible liar.

She's already had issues with her own family about how we met and she became married to me.  Susan had previously been married to another military guy, who her family all liked very much.  The problem was that their marriage was already heading south when she met me, and I got to see firsthand some of the shit he pulled on her.  Manipulation, head games, verbal abuse, all were a part of the deal.  I had originally been very guilt-ridden about what I saw as poaching, since we met while he was deployed.  Until I saw some of his emails back to her, that is.  I still felt bad, but nowhere near as much after that.

To make a long story short, another year or so later, and he was gone and we were together.  I did give them space to try and repair things (she wasn't the only one who cheated in their relationship), but in the end it was doomed to failure.  She faced a serious backlash from her family, and I still feel a bit of an outcast every time I have to deal with them.  To be fair, I don't like most of her family either, for the way they treat her, but hey.

Looking at Susan and Ryan's situation from the outside, I mentioned to her that I would not feel comfortable, if the situation was reversed, in both coming out as poly with my current love interest at my side, to people I was unsure how they would take it.  My advice was to stay away from the family until he got a chance to talk to them on his own, and for him to take the brunt of any backlash from them by himself.  That way, if they are fine with it, okay; if not, then at least she doesn't get painted with the scarlet letter.  It's not very fair, I realize, but if I was in his shoes, that is how I'd want to handle it.

Besides, it's someone else's birthday.  Why bring up possible drama to ruin someone else's day?

Not Just Me

Susan came home yesterday, early afternoon, and before too long got the rundown of everything I'd done while she was gone.  Her first words after were, "Do we need to talk about why you're keeping yourself so busy while I'm gone?"  We did, later after the kids were gone.  Both of us agree that it's most likely boredom.  I did verbalize that I wasn't thinking about her with someone else, so she doesn't think the wrong thing.

I think if the kids weren't a factor, whether they were just older and could be left alone or we hadn't had kids, then it'd be a different story.  I could go off and go hike, or find some other outdoor activity to go do.  But especially with the youngling only being five, it's somewhat difficult to do things how I want to do them.

We've taken her hiking before, and she didn't like it very much...and she's five; her legs are tiny little things.  I'd take the elder munchkin off hiking, but again, that would mean someone would be available to watch her sister.

I'd like to go kayaking out on the water, but that's not a possibility either...not a risk I'm willing to take with kids out on ocean.  So it becomes a quest to find something, anything that can keep me occupied.  It's easier when Sa is here to find some way to pass the time, but even with her here I'm still bored.  I don't play MMOs anymore, I've read all my books that I want to read, I'm not in the mood for TV or movies lately...I kinda get cabin fever no matter what's going on.

On the plus side, Susan absolutely loved the cheesecake, especially with the homemade blackberry sauce I made tonight to ladle over top of it.  Hooray for cheesecake!

Harness the Power!

I have noticed a trend in Susan's excursions to visit Ryan.  And no, it's probably not anything you're thinking.

I get busy.  Last weekend it was cleaning out some of the pile of boxes we had in the garage, and cleaning our room, and then making muffins.  The week before was yeast rolls.  I've made homemade pizza, cleaned the kitchen, and just generally have found ways to keep busy.

This week, I took the kids out to a restaurant supply store in the area (my own version of a toy store), and since I wanted to do that, we needed to go elsewhere and get a second booster seat for the youngling.  Kinda hard to go anywhere with the car seat in Susan's car two hours away.  Oops.

At the supply store (which was more of a warehouse looking place), the one guy who worked there had a dog roaming around.  My kids freak out around dogs, and this one was no exception.  And of course, he had to be big.  But he was an old softy, so didn't really pester them or anything, just kinda flopped on the floor and lay there.  Didn't stop the kids from being scared and whimpering though.

I came away with a batch of the wide-type of mixing bowls, as well as a three-pack of different size of springform pans.  Well, since I had those in hand, only one thing to do...make cheesecake!  So off to the store we went to get what I needed for that, then to home.

Once home I finally dealt with the youngling's disaster area of a room.  It gets cleaned out about twice a year, and she did actually keep it clean for a few weeks last time...and then I went off on a long underway and of course it wasn't kept up in my absence.  So this time I went in there, shoved EVERYTHING out into the hallway, gave her a basket, and told her to fill it with toys and bring it to me for sorting.

I ended up with a bag full of toys that she didn't want anymore, a bag full of trash, an absolute pile of stuffed animals she didn't want (including some that I just know will make Susan cry), and a cleaned up room.  And since she was the one who actually put stuff where it belonged, I know she can do it and knows where everything goes now.  We'll see how long we can keep floor visible in her room now.

After that it was time to make dinner, which for once I cheated on and just went with frozen pizza.  Once done, it was time to turn my attention to the cheesecake.  Made the crust, made some strawberry sauce while I was waiting for that to cool, made the filling, baked it off, and made sure the kitchen was completely clean.

All in all, it was a very productive day, and I wonder if I would have been anywhere near as productive if Susan hadn't gone up to meet Ryan.  We get into that whole cycle of "I'm not doing anything because you're not doing anything because I'm not doing anything" and nothing ever gets done.  Not quite as bad as all that, especially lately, but we do feed off of each other's inactivity.

I'm not exactly sure why I get super productive when she goes off on her trips.  I was thinking about it last night, and I came up with a couple of reasons why it could be...all of which would have to be subliminal, because I don't feel that way on top for any of these.

A) Escaping reality.  It might have something to do with keeping myself so busy that I don't think about the two of them together, or the fact that she's not there.
B) Mating display.  Showing her that I can do a bunch of things really useful around the house, as well as making her gooshy food. (Term shamelessly stolen from Two Lumps webcomic, meaning anything yummy and delicious...cake, muffin, pie, you get the idea.)
C) Protecting the kids.  This one's kind of an odd thought, but showing the kids that even if Mommy's not here that day, that I'm perfectly capable of acting in that mommy-type roll.  Kinda blurred since I'm the cook in the family, but still a thought.

Those were all options I mulled last night, but nothing trumps option D) I'm bored.  Might be something else mixed in with it, of course, since I don't get this active when she's here, but let's stick with K.I.S.S. and go with the obvious!

Difficulties

I'm going to preface this with admitting that we have only been active polyamorists for the last couple of months, and only seriously searching for a couple of months prior.

That said; damn, it seems like women have all the edge for poly lifestyles!  OKC has been our main access point for trying to find friends and potential partners, and she gets an average of anywhere from 30-60 visitors per day; last time I checked it was 2, and none at all in the last couple of weeks.

I feel at times like the teacher in the original Wonka movie, who was trying to teach percents using Wonka bars: "How many bars did you open?"  "Two."  "So two hundred..." "No, just two."  "Wha?  I can't figure it out with just two!"

To be fair, the profile pic is not the best; I am military, and they don't like people straying out of their marriages, regardless of consent of spouse.  Since that's the case, my profile pic doesn't show me very well.  But still...such a low number that it's kinda crazy.

I've also looked, just for S&G's, on Craigslist.  In our area, the number of guys looking for women was multiple pages for a single day; the number of women looking for men was multiple days per page.

Even Ryan said as much; he had been completely single for three years prior to meeting up with Susan.  I guess this is one aspect of poly that will have to take some time in order to experience.  The necessary discretion from having the job I do isn't going to make things any faster, either.

Murgle.

So as I said last time, on Saturday we invited Susan's boyfriend Ryan over to lunch, as well as another poly couple that she knew from online, Erik and Angie.  In return, they invited us to their place along with other people.  Now, to be fair, it was one of those cases where the hosts just invited anyone they knew and see who responded.  They way it got filtered to me, though, was that there was a couple of people invited from Angie's support group (she has medical stuff on the side), and several poly couples.

I was somewhat leery of going anyways; I (and Susan as well) are completely drug free, and neither of us smoke tobacco either.  Angie actually has legitimate medical reasons that allow her to procure and smoke pot, and has to do so quite regularly.  Because, and only because, of the medical stuff, I was willing to give it a pass in the pursuit of friendship...had she been a recreational user, I wouldn't have been willing to go that far.

The food was good.  I'll give them that much.  They also did do a lot to clean up and de-funkify their place from the pot smoke as well as the cat they have.  Neither was very noticeable when we got there, so yay.  And since kids were along, double-yay.  Unfortunately, that was about the extent of the good side of things.  We got to talk a very little bit about poly before the other guest arrived (notice the lack of a plural there), and we did get warned that the other attendee was one of the med group people, who was known to chatter about their shared problems.

In the end, Angie and the other guest talked nearly non-stop about their issues, which in some ways is understandable...it's their lives, after all.  But any attempt we made to try to steer the conversation to neutral territory was swiftly shifted back on the course of medical stuff, and in the end we were glad that the kids were along.  By the time we finished eating, the kids were both all over our laps, and we were able to use them as an excuse to bail.

Of course, once we got home we realized how much pot smoke was still in their place, because we'd taken a fair amount with us, ingrained into our hair and clothes.  We ended up having to give our older kid a quick shower before her bedtime, and Susan had to get up extra early to make sure the younger got the same before school in the morning.  All the clothes we were wearing, as well as the younger kid's sheets had to take a double trip through the wash.

In the end, while Erik and Susan get along fairly well online, I don't think we'll be going over to their place anymore.  We may invite them to us, but the atmosphere of their place is just not viable for us.  Both of us were also rather disappointed as well; we were hoping to make more contact with local-ish poly people, and it ended up being a total bust.  Back to the drawing board, it seems.

Socialness? What's that?

Last weekend we actually had people in our house...that weren't us!  Now, I understand that for many people this is an everyday occurrence, but for my wife and I, well...not so much.  Don't get me wrong, we have made many friends over the years, but we've moved away from any we knew before and all the rest have been over the internet.

Ryan came over early to have some time with Susan.  They snuggled up on the couch mostly, and when they weren't they were watching me prep food for later.  Erik and Angie showed up later on, right about the time bellies were starting to grumble.  Erik and Angie are a married poly couple, and Erik has been Susan's contact with them for the last several weeks.  This was our first chance to all meet up and actually have some adult conversation for once.

We made sure the kids were occupied, and for the most part they stayed well out of the way.  Lunch was in two phases; first, a build-your-own salad buffet, then some homemade pepperoni pizza puffs.  For the most part, lunch went off very well, and we finished the get-together off with a hard-fought game of Pirate Munchkin, or whatever it's called.  (Side note: if you like games at all, get any of the Munchkin variants!)

Erik and Angie had to take off, since they had other plans for later that night, but they apparently liked us well enough to invite us to their own poly meet-up later this week.  Even the kids were invited, which is good since we have no reliable babysitter.  Their main comment to Susan later was that "It's obvious you've been doing this for a while, it felt like a poly household with no drama!"  Susan and I had to laugh at that; maybe we really were meant for poly after all!

We had another first that evening.  I made sure the kids stayed downstairs while Ryan and Susan had some alone time in our room...that's the first time I've been anywhere near the two while they did anything more than hug and kiss.  Still no appearance of the big green monster, and in the words of Susan, "is this really working?"

So far, it is.

Ch-ch-ch-changes...

Starting about a month and a half or so ago, my wife has been in talks with Ryan in pursuit of a relationship outside the one we have and love.  They had met up once halfway between domiciles, had chattered away on IM frequently otherwise, and seemed to be hitting it off well.  So a few weeks ago, she set off to his house a couple of hours away for their first true date.  It was already established that this was to be a "no-sex" night, just a night to get to know each other.

All three of us expected me to have some issues with the whole thing.   I ended up having two.  First one:  I was bored.  Don't get me wrong, I'm normally (read: always) home on Saturday nights, because I really have no local friends at this point in time.  Constant shifts in location with the military and my own semi-reclusive lifestyle don't exactly help me gain friends, and while I like some of the people I work with, I don't like them that much.

So while I am normally at home, the key is that I'm home...with Susan.  She's there to watch a show with, or to sit in bed and read together with, or to...do other things with.  But for the first time in a looooong time, she wasn't there.  Now, I'm fine with (well, not fine with, but at least used to) me not being there, due to lots of travel for the military.  But I'm not accustomed to being at home, in my sanctuary, without her being there.  It wasn't jealousy; I know what that feels like and it wasn't that.  It was just a sense of...detachment, I guess.  Things weren't normal.  They weren't bad, they just weren't what they should be for a Saturday evening.  I tried to distract myself with online games, and books, and a bath, and researching recipes for the next day's dinner, and, and, and.  Bottom line, I moped.  Didn't like that much, but it got better the next weekend when she did the same thing.

Second issue I had:  As I said, he lives a couple hours away.  She was supposed to let me know when she got there, then after dinner and movie to let me know how much longer she was planning on being, then when she left so I knew that she was alright.  (Regular communications thing with us, not related to poly...we let each other know when we're leaving and when we've arrived if we're traveling long distances anywhere.)  She sent me a text when she arrived, so yay...then nothing after that.  So I texted her.  No response.  Gave it another half hour, texted again, no response.  Gave it another twenty minutes, then called...voicemail.  Hmm.  Now what?

In the end I did nothing, except hope that she hadn't gotten randomly hooked up with an axe murderer.  I figured, if anything, that they were probably necking (or more) and I was being a mood-wrecker.  Either that, or her phone was muffled by a pile of clothes in another part of the room.  I will say that it didn't really help my mood out at all.  She did finally see the texts and missed calls about an hour and a half after that, when she let me know that she was on her way.  Turns out she'd silenced her phone for the movie and completely forgot to let me know her plans after, so the phone's sound never got activated after.  Crisis averted.

She made it back safely, we talked about the whole thing, and she apologized for worrying me and promised to make sure that I didn't have a reason to worry next time.  Yay for communications!

When is Kink Not Kink?

My wife and I recently managed to find a babysitter (rare event for us in particular) and we used the night off to attend a local poly group discussion.  Different location from before, so we had no idea what to expect.  We had one person who had attended previously that said that since he wasn't on time for the discussion during a previous event, he wasn't able to get into the circle. Thankfully that wasn't the case; we did get there at the start of intros, but everyone smooshed over nicely, and that carried throughout the night when more stragglers showed.

Everything went fine for the most part; much closer age spread to us and not as many...questionable characters.  The one gripe I had was that the discussion was supposed to be lightly moderated by the organizer, but every topic that came up was a forever-long monologue from her before (and sometimes after) anyone else spoke.  I'd have loved to see more of a chance to open up by not only us, but the other participants as well.

In our area, the poly group makeup and that of the local kink group is a fairly large overlap.  Think thin crescent moons left not overlapped on a Venn diagram of the two.  The organizer did bring up that they were thinking of making a specific poly group to handle both poly and kink within the same group, and letting the poly group focus more on the poly side of the house.

During the bit of discussion following, it was asked who at the table identified as kinksters, and my wife and I were the only ones who kept our hands lowered.  Which didn't pose a problem; we felt that we got a lot out of it, and made some contributions...someone even mentioned that we had all coexisted rather well.  But it did spark a thought in my head...when is kink not kink?

To be fair, my wife and I do engage in BDSM play.  Restraints, a selection of floggers, "fun"ishment hand spankings, to the point of reddening, hair pulling, choking; all these have been used by me on her to the fun and enjoyment of us both.  In many people's eyes, this would definitely be considered kinky sex, and even in our own eyes, it's definitely not anywhere close to vanilla.

So why don't we identify ourselves as kinksters?  I'm not really sure.  At this point, I think both of us like it too much to forgo it for the rest of our lives; we'd need to enjoy the rougher side of sex at least once in a while, if only for variety's sake.  But it's not a lifestyle for us.  We aren't in a DD relationship, we're not even in a D/s relationship.  I am far more dominant than she is...and since I realized that she is actually submissive rather than dismissive, that dominant side to me has come out more.  But it's not a D/s thing as we define it.  We don't engage in enough BDSM sex in order for that to count, and at that, what we do is fairly tame when compared to the vast majority of those who view themselves as kinsters.

If I had the ways and means, I would set up a dungeon in our house.  I would furnish it with a St. Andrew's Cross, a padded sawhorse, and at least one or two other items of dungeon furniture.  Floggers and paddles would be hung up on the wall.  I'd even have a violet wand and accessories floating around somewhere.  If this was the case, I would have no doubt that she would be a willing participant and let me exercise, and exorcise, myself on her.  But even if all that were to happen, I still don't think we'd identify ourselves as kinksters.

It's a state of mind, I think.  When it's time to talk about it, or plan it, or participate in it, we're fully engaged, wholly focused in the moment and in the scene.  But when it's over, or it's time to move on to something else, it all gets folded away and stored somewhere in the backs of our minds.  We don't eat, breathe, and live BDSM for the sake of BDSM...and at least for the two of us, that makes all the difference.  Doesn't make us any better, or any worse, than the others at the table...just a difference of mindset.

Past Experience

More on the failed experiment that we had several years ago with poly...and, though I didn't know it at the time, the genesis of our own pursuits of light BDSM as well.

So growing up I moved around fairly frequently.  The longest stretch of time I spent anywhere was about six years in one particular state on the East Coast, and even there we changed houses three different times.  I got there shortly after the start of my 5th grade year, and ended up completing 10th there before moving.  The last three years there I made friends with a couple of girls in the grade behind me.  When I moved, I tried to keep up with them, but ultimately lost track of them and pretty much all my other friends in rather short order.

Fast forward about ten or eleven years later, and, having nothing better to do, I set about looking up various names of my childhood friends and seeing if I could track them down.  To my amazement, I actually managed to find one of the two girls I was closest to, and not only that, she was only living about three hours or so away...not a bad drive at all.  I got in contact with her, and she revealed that she was seriously dating a guy (might as well throw identifiers in here, Erica for her and Daniel for him.)

We met up with them a few weeks later, and got caught up and everything.  Ten years plus had done a lot to change her, in my eyes at least, and I'm sure that time had done similar work to me for her as well.  Meanwhile, Daniel and my wife hit it off fantastically.  Finally, we all met up and the topic was broached regarding extending Daniel's and my wife's relationship to a more personal one.

Approval was granted all around, with some hesitation on my part at the very least, but the weeks passed and Daniel and my wife definitely used their time well.  To my knowledge (or at least lack of memory), they never had full intercourse, but she did experience him tying her up at one point during a solo trip out to him, and they had regular webcam discussions, with all that entails, when they couldn't meet up.

Everything was going well until a trip to their house where we all watched a bad movie on their bed together, and there was some unspoken and subtle pressure for myself and Erica to come to some sort of arrangement as well.  Neither one of us was feeling it, and it wasn't too long after that incident that Erica decided to rethink the whole poly situation on their end.  Shortly after that, I fell out of contact with her once again.

I'm not exactly sure what I could have done to make things easier.  They did live far enough away that it wasn't a simple task for anyone to jump in a car and just meet up for an hour or two, or lunch, or dinner, or whatever.  Add a very young kid to the mix (about two years old or so at the time) and the logistics got even worse.  I gave my wife enough freedom to do what she felt she needed to do, and during this time she also got at least a little involved with the local poly group and even attended a very interesting party that one of the group's founders threw at her house.

I tried to get with that same poly group...but I just didn't like the vibe that I got from them.  There's more to it than that, but suffice to say that none of the people were our age, or even within a decade of it, and there were a couple of the guys that I would not be surprised to know were, shall we say, registered somewhere.  In the end, we both decided to table the poly discussion for a while, and the realization that she was pregnant with our second child certainly helped that along.

That brief sojourn into the realms of poly were enough to start the ball rolling, however, and I think we both learned a lot from that experience.  Hopefully, we'll be better equipped to handle situations in the future, especially if a member of another couple becomes involved with either of us.

There's a First Time for Everything!

Where to begin?  I could begin at the beginning, but truthfully that was rather messy, ten years in the past, not very exciting, and besides, the wench is dead!  Well, okay, she's actually sitting across from me pecking at her own keyboard.

I guess I'll have to jump right into the good stuff.  I am very happily married to someone who has, for whatever reason, put up with my foibles and idiosyncrasies over the years without a qualm.  A couple of years after we got together, she started to broach the idea of polyamory with me.  For many and wildly varied reasons (including a failed attempt with a couple we knew), poly was very quickly put on the back burner...but never quite out of mind.

The kids are older, most of the reasons we had earlier no longer apply, and this past spring and summer we started moving back into the realm of poly.  I've gotten older and wiser and, perhaps most importantly, more secure in our relationship.  She's gotten herself on an even keel, and our communication on the subject has never been stronger.

So how has it fared?  Well, for her things seem to be going great.  She's gotten mixed up with a guy she really likes...his only bad point is that he lives about two hours away.  This pretty much means that to make it worthwhile, if she goes off to visit him, it pretty much has to be an overnighter.  Now, in addition to everything else, I'm military, so the kids are used to me disappearing for anywhere from a night to several months at a time.  When SHE does it, however, you can see the confusion on their faces...like, "wait a minute...something's not right here!"  They've handled it well so far though, thank goodness.

We both keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.  We had set up an agreement prior to their meeting the first time of "no sex"...on my part it was really just because I wanted to make sure that she was comfortable with him and not just jumping into bed because she could.  That hurdle met, they went out an additional time or two, and then the subject was brought up again.  As a matter of fact, he insisted on meeting me...not the other way around.

So we set up for a late breakfast, so that I could interact with him on more than a "Hi, My name is Ryan, and I'm off to go jump your wife's bones now" basis.  I made bacon, eggs, and pancakes, and while he wasn't in my "instant like" of people, I didn't have any real problems with him.  So we enjoyed our meal, some conversation, and then I could tell my wife was starting to get antsy, so I bid adieu to them and they went off on their way for the evening.

I expected to be far more jealous than I actually turned out to be.  Really, the only negative for me is that I currently have no local social outlet other than my wife, and with her gone, I get bored very quickly.  If I didn't have the kids to worry about, I could head for the poker room at the casino, or go to a coffeeshop, or go on a wombat shaving safari, or something...but alas, kids need baths and food and bedtimes.

That's all well and good for her...as of yet I've gotten exactly zero interaction.  I'm just starting out though, and who knows when my luck will change?  In the meantime, all I can do is to be there for my wife and be supportive.